that said, there is a point where the debate yields to something more significant. we are hopeful, between now and saturday, that a range of voices, whether they're political figures, religious figures, others, can rise and convince this community that there are better ways of commemorating 9/11 than through this action. >> but, p.j., one more thing. the secretary is going to speak out this evening. and second, freedom of expression or freedom of religion doesn't mean that you put the whole country on fire. >> well, and, goyal, there is another side to this. that's true. but if this community goes ahead and -- with this proposed event on saturday, we would hope that the rest of the world will judge us t by the actions of one pastor or 50 followers, but judge us by a tradition that goes back to our founding.